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	<title>Comments on: Manual PPC Bid Management is Dead</title>
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	<description>quality score intelligence</description>
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		<title>By: This Week in Digital Marketing 26-30 July: What to use when you go fishing, Mobile numbers, B2B Case Studys and more! &#160;&#124;&#160;Young &#38; Shand</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73970</link>
		<dc:creator>This Week in Digital Marketing 26-30 July: What to use when you go fishing, Mobile numbers, B2B Case Studys and more! &#160;&#124;&#160;Young &#38; Shand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73970</guid>
		<description>[...] was posed with the challenge to spend $7,000 in a day on Google Adwords for a client.  Read the full post for all the details, in short though he strikes a point, companies can keep tweaking their bid scores up/down to hit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was posed with the challenge to spend $7,000 in a day on Google Adwords for a client.  Read the full post for all the details, in short though he strikes a point, companies can keep tweaking their bid scores up/down to hit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jameszol</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73874</link>
		<dc:creator>jameszol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73874</guid>
		<description>@SEM Dude - I would love to chat with you about your experiences and about which tools you have tested. I think next week&#039;s post would benefit by having your voice involved a little bit if you don&#039;t mind. Did you get a chance to read the latest post - regarding what I think is a big disconnect in our industry between what real automation is vs what is being advertised as automation? I think you would like it - and I would like to hear your opinion...

@Mary Thanks so much for stopping by to share your thoughts with us. Your contributions to the industry as a whole are amazing! I just submitted my email address to get that report and will read it soon!! It sounds like your findings will fit nicely with what I have planned for next week&#039;s post.

@everyone Sorry I didn&#039;t update this post yesterday with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.qualityscores.com/what-is-truly-automated-adaptive-ppc-bid-management-technology/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;latest post in the series.&lt;/a&gt; Looking forward to your thoughts on what I think is an industry-wide misunderstanding regarding bid automation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SEM Dude &#8211; I would love to chat with you about your experiences and about which tools you have tested. I think next week&#8217;s post would benefit by having your voice involved a little bit if you don&#8217;t mind. Did you get a chance to read the latest post &#8211; regarding what I think is a big disconnect in our industry between what real automation is vs what is being advertised as automation? I think you would like it &#8211; and I would like to hear your opinion&#8230;</p>
<p>@Mary Thanks so much for stopping by to share your thoughts with us. Your contributions to the industry as a whole are amazing! I just submitted my email address to get that report and will read it soon!! It sounds like your findings will fit nicely with what I have planned for next week&#8217;s post.</p>
<p>@everyone Sorry I didn&#8217;t update this post yesterday with the <a href="http://www.qualityscores.com/what-is-truly-automated-adaptive-ppc-bid-management-technology/" rel="nofollow">latest post in the series.</a> Looking forward to your thoughts on what I think is an industry-wide misunderstanding regarding bid automation.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73863</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73863</guid>
		<description>Hey James,

Great article and right on the money. We have found that folks get really confused when selecting a bid management solution and too many end up continuing to bid manually when there is no need for it.

We have just written a very large objective research report on the merits/drawbacks of using a bid management solution. We interviewed a ton of folks (vendors, bid management users, advertisers, agencies etc.) and the conclusions were quite surprising. You can download a free synopsis of our findings here: http://ppcsummit.com/landingpage/lp1.html and if you&#039;d like some insight on the information we learned, feel free to ping me before you write your next article.   

In most cases (not all) your time is much more productively spent with keywords, messaging and landing page optimization, than in poring over your bids all day. 

That said, a human still has to be involved in the bid management process, and be an informed user. These tools are only as good as the information you put into them, and many users don&#039;t set up their goals or bids correctly and then wonder why the tool doesn&#039;t give them the returns they expected. 

A tool is a tool, not an alternative to human intervention and analysis but many marketers have a set it and forget it mentality and that&#039;s what gets them into trouble. You can&#039;t manage a pay per click campaign like you would a standard media buy, although many agencies would like to think you can. 

To @Dan Perach&#039;s point, we found there are a couple of tools that are now cost effective for managing small business accounts, so he might want to check them out again.

Cheers, Mary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey James,</p>
<p>Great article and right on the money. We have found that folks get really confused when selecting a bid management solution and too many end up continuing to bid manually when there is no need for it.</p>
<p>We have just written a very large objective research report on the merits/drawbacks of using a bid management solution. We interviewed a ton of folks (vendors, bid management users, advertisers, agencies etc.) and the conclusions were quite surprising. You can download a free synopsis of our findings here: <a href="http://ppcsummit.com/landingpage/lp1.html" rel="nofollow">http://ppcsummit.com/landingpage/lp1.html</a> and if you&#8217;d like some insight on the information we learned, feel free to ping me before you write your next article.   </p>
<p>In most cases (not all) your time is much more productively spent with keywords, messaging and landing page optimization, than in poring over your bids all day. </p>
<p>That said, a human still has to be involved in the bid management process, and be an informed user. These tools are only as good as the information you put into them, and many users don&#8217;t set up their goals or bids correctly and then wonder why the tool doesn&#8217;t give them the returns they expected. </p>
<p>A tool is a tool, not an alternative to human intervention and analysis but many marketers have a set it and forget it mentality and that&#8217;s what gets them into trouble. You can&#8217;t manage a pay per click campaign like you would a standard media buy, although many agencies would like to think you can. </p>
<p>To @Dan Perach&#8217;s point, we found there are a couple of tools that are now cost effective for managing small business accounts, so he might want to check them out again.</p>
<p>Cheers, Mary</p>
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		<title>By: SEM Dude</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73684</link>
		<dc:creator>SEM Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73684</guid>
		<description>@Jameszol.  While the automation may account for seasonality WHEN it comes, it does not effectively prepare your positions and bids BEFORE it arrives. As you mentioned, automation can ADAPT but not PREPARE!  Manual approach gives you valuable time to capitalize on revenue that the automation would miss.

Automation, additionally, does not allow less efficient but high converting terms, to maintain their higher position when setting KPIs in the tool.  It  would see these terms as &quot;underperforming&quot; and bid them down when in reality, you may want to capture those conversions and use the efficiency of the rest of your portfolio to allow for that higher positioning.

It may just be my experience but any automated tool we have used has resulted in higher costs and lower efficiency.  At a new position I was in, my company was using automated tools through a well known search agency.  While we were meeting the goals we asked our agency to set, there was thousands of dollars being lost in getaway bidding, self competition (a whole new discussion!), match types and overall being careless when relying on tools.

We&#039;ve performed many tests with &quot;human vs. computer&quot; and human has almost always won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jameszol.  While the automation may account for seasonality WHEN it comes, it does not effectively prepare your positions and bids BEFORE it arrives. As you mentioned, automation can ADAPT but not PREPARE!  Manual approach gives you valuable time to capitalize on revenue that the automation would miss.</p>
<p>Automation, additionally, does not allow less efficient but high converting terms, to maintain their higher position when setting KPIs in the tool.  It  would see these terms as &#8220;underperforming&#8221; and bid them down when in reality, you may want to capture those conversions and use the efficiency of the rest of your portfolio to allow for that higher positioning.</p>
<p>It may just be my experience but any automated tool we have used has resulted in higher costs and lower efficiency.  At a new position I was in, my company was using automated tools through a well known search agency.  While we were meeting the goals we asked our agency to set, there was thousands of dollars being lost in getaway bidding, self competition (a whole new discussion!), match types and overall being careless when relying on tools.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve performed many tests with &#8220;human vs. computer&#8221; and human has almost always won.</p>
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		<title>By: jameszol</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73526</link>
		<dc:creator>jameszol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73526</guid>
		<description>@Dan Perach Thank you for your thoughts - and I agree, very insightful comments. Editor is certainly a fantastic tool to use, even if one leaves bid management up to the bots. It makes ad editing/writing a breeze too! I sent out over 4000 ads yesterday for testing via Desktop Editors. Granted, they were all similar - but it made scaling the ad test side that much easier. Conversion optimizer is a decent tool too.

@Andrew Nattan Haha! Very well said - I couldn&#039;t agree more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Perach Thank you for your thoughts &#8211; and I agree, very insightful comments. Editor is certainly a fantastic tool to use, even if one leaves bid management up to the bots. It makes ad editing/writing a breeze too! I sent out over 4000 ads yesterday for testing via Desktop Editors. Granted, they were all similar &#8211; but it made scaling the ad test side that much easier. Conversion optimizer is a decent tool too.</p>
<p>@Andrew Nattan Haha! Very well said &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t agree more!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Nattan</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73507</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Nattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73507</guid>
		<description>Well, if that&#039;s the standard experience of manual PPC, it&#039;s probably better off dead. I can&#039;t think of a more tedious and less efficient way to spend a marketing budget!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if that&#8217;s the standard experience of manual PPC, it&#8217;s probably better off dead. I can&#8217;t think of a more tedious and less efficient way to spend a marketing budget!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Perach</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73471</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Perach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73471</guid>
		<description>Excellent article and insightful comments.

As most... ALL of my accounts are &quot;small&quot;... I&#039;m stuck with manual bid optimization, although using Editor... its not such a big deal, if you know what your doing... http://blog.ppcproz.com/2009/11/keyword-bid-management-method.html  

That being said, I really savor the day when my small accounts can &quot;graduate&quot; to Google Conversion Optimizer bidding.

Instead of needing to adjust bids religiously, at least 2x/week, with CO you can adjust adgroup CPA bids, and/or adjust campaign budgets... as well as pause underperforming kws (but not before finding new kws from the sqr)... CPA bidding allows the best of all worlds for small/medium accounts... keeping an eye on the ball, and performing.

I&#039;ll post to my Blog the workflow I use for CPA bidding; that&#039;s not a promise though ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article and insightful comments.</p>
<p>As most&#8230; ALL of my accounts are &#8220;small&#8221;&#8230; I&#8217;m stuck with manual bid optimization, although using Editor&#8230; its not such a big deal, if you know what your doing&#8230; <a href="http://blog.ppcproz.com/2009/11/keyword-bid-management-method.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.ppcproz.com/2009/11/keyword-bid-management-method.html</a>  </p>
<p>That being said, I really savor the day when my small accounts can &#8220;graduate&#8221; to Google Conversion Optimizer bidding.</p>
<p>Instead of needing to adjust bids religiously, at least 2x/week, with CO you can adjust adgroup CPA bids, and/or adjust campaign budgets&#8230; as well as pause underperforming kws (but not before finding new kws from the sqr)&#8230; CPA bidding allows the best of all worlds for small/medium accounts&#8230; keeping an eye on the ball, and performing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll post to my Blog the workflow I use for CPA bidding; that&#8217;s not a promise though <img src='http://www.qualityscores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jameszol</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73470</link>
		<dc:creator>jameszol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73470</guid>
		<description>@Mark rofl - yeah, plugin issues w/ those internal links. although i am in the crowd that does not believe the alleged &#039;1 internal link to a given page per page&#039; rule that has allegedly been proven w/ a non-significant number of sites...i do believe, however, that there is some sort of significant decay in value for each subsequent link on a page that points toward the given page. also...your comment is irrelevant on this blog post...which is entirely about ppc... :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark rofl &#8211; yeah, plugin issues w/ those internal links. although i am in the crowd that does not believe the alleged &#8217;1 internal link to a given page per page&#8217; rule that has allegedly been proven w/ a non-significant number of sites&#8230;i do believe, however, that there is some sort of significant decay in value for each subsequent link on a page that points toward the given page. also&#8230;your comment is irrelevant on this blog post&#8230;which is entirely about ppc&#8230; <img src='http://www.qualityscores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73465</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73465</guid>
		<description>Can someone tell him that beyond the first link to a given page, all further links are useless? Linking 5 times to the same page doesn&#039;t work dude. Stick to SEM :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone tell him that beyond the first link to a given page, all further links are useless? Linking 5 times to the same page doesn&#8217;t work dude. Stick to SEM <img src='http://www.qualityscores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jameszol</title>
		<link>http://www.qualityscores.com/manual-ppc-bid-management-is-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-73409</link>
		<dc:creator>jameszol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qualityscores.com/?p=1004#comment-73409</guid>
		<description>@Jason Thank you for your comment! I must say I agree that some automated software sales reps and managers alike put too much weight on the sheer number/volume of bid changes per day their software makes...when, as you suggest, some lower volume terms may/may not merit that rigorous approach. Real automated software is so mathematically advanced w/ multiple stats doctors/geniuses behind the algorithms/predictive models that it really doesn&#039;t take very many clicks to produce or predict a pattern that is eerily accurate to a 99% or more Confidence level...I think there is quite a bit of confusion in the software marketplace in regards to automation - and I&#039;ll touch on that in this week&#039;s post.

@SEM Dude Hmm...I think the end of my thoughts to @Jason are worth repeating here. I believe statisticians and real automated bid management solutions DO take into account seasonality and they are quite amazing with their ability to adapt to sales, seasons, etc. There appears to be a lot of confusion between what I consider &#039;true&#039; or &#039;real&#039; automation and what is marketed in the marketplace as &#039;automated&#039;...I hope you, SEM Dude (aka Anonymous?) care to come back and comment on my next post. I also wish you would own your comments. Why hide from your opinion? Everybody is entitled to their own opinion - own it. ;-)

@billy Haha! I thought it sounded a little salesy too while editing the post...but I can assure you, I have nothing to sell except for the concept that manual ppc bid management is dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jason Thank you for your comment! I must say I agree that some automated software sales reps and managers alike put too much weight on the sheer number/volume of bid changes per day their software makes&#8230;when, as you suggest, some lower volume terms may/may not merit that rigorous approach. Real automated software is so mathematically advanced w/ multiple stats doctors/geniuses behind the algorithms/predictive models that it really doesn&#8217;t take very many clicks to produce or predict a pattern that is eerily accurate to a 99% or more Confidence level&#8230;I think there is quite a bit of confusion in the software marketplace in regards to automation &#8211; and I&#8217;ll touch on that in this week&#8217;s post.</p>
<p>@SEM Dude Hmm&#8230;I think the end of my thoughts to @Jason are worth repeating here. I believe statisticians and real automated bid management solutions DO take into account seasonality and they are quite amazing with their ability to adapt to sales, seasons, etc. There appears to be a lot of confusion between what I consider &#8216;true&#8217; or &#8216;real&#8217; automation and what is marketed in the marketplace as &#8216;automated&#8217;&#8230;I hope you, SEM Dude (aka Anonymous?) care to come back and comment on my next post. I also wish you would own your comments. Why hide from your opinion? Everybody is entitled to their own opinion &#8211; own it. <img src='http://www.qualityscores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@billy Haha! I thought it sounded a little salesy too while editing the post&#8230;but I can assure you, I have nothing to sell except for the concept that manual ppc bid management is dead.</p>
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